Discussion:
Crash Dump Program for Vista
(too old to reply)
Reuven Nisser
2008-01-18 08:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi All,
I am looking for a crash dump program for Windows Vista.

The article "How to use the Userdump.exe tool to create a dump file"
does not apply to Vista.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/241215

Thanks,
Reuven Nisser
Jeffrey Tan[MSFT]
2008-01-21 03:38:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Reuven,

There are several ways to create dump files in Vista. For example, the task
manager also contains the build-in function of generating dump files.

However, to generate crash dump file, the task manager will not help you.
You may use adplus tool from the windbg tools package for this purpose.
Please refer to the articles below for more details:
"How to use ADPlus to troubleshoot "hangs" and "crashes""
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/286350/en-us
"How to create a user-mode process dump file in Windows Vista"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931673/en-us

Thanks.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Community Support
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Jeffrey Tan[MSFT]
2008-01-24 03:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Reuven,

Have you reviewed my reply to you? Does it make sense to you? If you still
need any help, please feel free to feedback, thanks.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Community Support
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up response may take approximately 2 business days as the support
professional working with you may need further investigation to reach the
most efficient resolution. The offering is not appropriate for situations
that require urgent, real-time or phone-based interactions or complex
project analysis and dump analysis issues. Issues of this nature are best
handled working with a dedicated Microsoft Support Engineer by contacting
Microsoft Customer Support Services (CSS) at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/support/default.aspx.
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Reuven Nisser
2008-01-27 15:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jeffrey,
I checked it on my PC and it works. Now I need to try to activate it on
a fresh Vista installation and write instructions for my users.

The main idea is to activate the software on target application PCs and
this complicates things. Unfortunately, it's not so simple like
userdump.exe which you could activate and forget it till the crash
occurred (if ever). The user must know he has a crash problem and then
activate AdPlus to generate the problem again.

Thanks,
Reuven Nisser
Jeffrey Tan[MSFT]
2008-01-29 08:24:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi Reuven,

I do not think I understand your concern completely.

"Unfortunately, it's not so simple like userdump.exe which you could
activate and forget it till the crash occurred (if ever)."
You may use "adplus.vbs -crash" command to active the adplus and monitor
the application and forget it. When the crash occurs, the adplus will
generate dump for it. So I think adplus.vbs can also achieve what you
wanted.

If I have misunderstood your key point, please feel free to tell me, thanks.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Community Support
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Engineer within 1 business day is acceptable. Please note that each follow
up response may take approximately 2 business days as the support
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most efficient resolution. The offering is not appropriate for situations
that require urgent, real-time or phone-based interactions or complex
project analysis and dump analysis issues. Issues of this nature are best
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Microsoft Customer Support Services (CSS) at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/support/default.aspx.
==================================================
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Reuven Nisser
2008-01-30 00:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Hello Jeffrey,
But the application must be up and running when you activate AdPlus,
right? You could activate UserDump.exe once, register the application
name and forget it.

If I have a tester checking the application, he does not know if a crash
will occur during his session. If it occurred and he did not activate
AdPlus for the process, the crash will not be dumped. Same thing about
our users: If they will not activate AdPlus every time they activate the
application, then crashes will not be dumped automatically.

Hope it explains my problem.
Thanks,
Reuven Nisser
Jeffrey Tan[MSFT]
2008-01-30 07:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Reuven ,

Thanks for your explanation, I understand your concern now.

I am not familiar with internal work of UserDump.exe, but I think it uses a
totally different mechanism to monitor process and generate dump as
Adplus.vbs.(For example, it will not depend on the Windows debugging API)

The reason that adplus.vbs does not support not-running application/process
monitor is that it depends on the Windows debugging API. Windows debugging
API requires a live running process for attaching, so this is a design
limitation of Windows debugging API.

Anyway, most of the employees in Microsoft leverages Adplus to take dump
file for analysis since it has a lot of fexibility and can control various
type of dump options for the dump size. Internally, adplus.vbs just
automates the cdb debugger(which uses the same core engine as windbg) to
attach the running process and take dump when certain condition meets.
Another advantage of adplus is that it supports the configure file for
complex dump setting for first-chance, second-chance exception and custom
actions etc...

Since userdump.exe is not support after Vista, I think we must live with
adplus for dump generation now. Fortunately, it is not hard to use. Hope
this helps.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Community Support
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up response may take approximately 2 business days as the support
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most efficient resolution. The offering is not appropriate for situations
that require urgent, real-time or phone-based interactions or complex
project analysis and dump analysis issues. Issues of this nature are best
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Reuven Nisser
2008-01-31 09:47:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jeffrey.
Thanks for the clarification. This is exactly my problem. AdPlus is
intended to be used by programmers or others who use it as part of their
work. My customers are not computer professionals and even activating
UserDump.exe is difficult for them. I'm not saying they are stupid, I'm
saying they just will not invest the time to learn the tool.
Why isn' t UserDump.exe supported in Vista? If it's using technology
which can not be used anymore, than I understand but if not, I would ask
Microsoft to continue support the program.
Maybe there are other tools which can be used for the same purpose? Do
you know of any?
Thanks,
Reuven Nisser
Jeffrey Tan[MSFT]
2008-02-01 02:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi Reuven,

Thanks for your concern.

Ok, I will try to find the team that owns the UserDump for some
information.

Regarding a simple and easy to use crash dump tool, I will try to find out
if the default Vista Windows Error Reporting program can be configured to
generate a crash dump for us.

I will get back to you ASAP. Thanks.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Community Support
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professional working with you may need further investigation to reach the
most efficient resolution. The offering is not appropriate for situations
that require urgent, real-time or phone-based interactions or complex
project analysis and dump analysis issues. Issues of this nature are best
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Jeffrey Tan[MSFT]
2008-02-04 07:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Reuven,

Sorry for letting you wait.

I have finally contacted the UserDump team. There is a new version of
UserDump.exe supporting Vista. However, it is Microsoft internal and
co-development partners only yet. We are waiting some pending corporate
policy then can it be settled down to public release. Also, an even newer
version of UserDump.exe is under development for Vista SP1 and Windows
Server2008.

Currently, the only workaround we have is using Adplus.vbs. If your client
is the Vista sp1 or WinServer2008, there is one enhancement in them. You
can now configure Windows Error Reporting to generate a complete dump of
the crashing application. See this page:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb787181(VS.85).aspx

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Community Support
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Engineer within 1 business day is acceptable. Please note that each follow
up response may take approximately 2 business days as the support
professional working with you may need further investigation to reach the
most efficient resolution. The offering is not appropriate for situations
that require urgent, real-time or phone-based interactions or complex
project analysis and dump analysis issues. Issues of this nature are best
handled working with a dedicated Microsoft Support Engineer by contacting
Microsoft Customer Support Services (CSS) at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/support/default.aspx.
==================================================
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Jeffrey Tan[MSFT]
2008-02-07 07:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi Reuven ,

Have you reviewed my reply to you? Does it make sense to you? If you still
need any help, please feel free to feedback. Thanks.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Community Support
==================================================
Get notification to my posts through email? Please refer to
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/managednewsgroups/default.aspx#notif
ications.

Note: The MSDN Managed Newsgroup support offering is for non-urgent issues
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Engineer within 1 business day is acceptable. Please note that each follow
up response may take approximately 2 business days as the support
professional working with you may need further investigation to reach the
most efficient resolution. The offering is not appropriate for situations
that require urgent, real-time or phone-based interactions or complex
project analysis and dump analysis issues. Issues of this nature are best
handled working with a dedicated Microsoft Support Engineer by contacting
Microsoft Customer Support Services (CSS) at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/support/default.aspx.
==================================================
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Andre Kaufmann
2008-02-24 09:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reuven Nisser
Hi All,
I am looking for a crash dump program for Windows Vista.
The article "How to use the Userdump.exe tool to create a dump file"
does not apply to Vista.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/241215
Thanks,
Reuven Nisser
Hi,

you could have a look at the book "Debugging Applications for Microsoft
.NET and Microsoft Windows" from John Robbins. It ships with sample
code, which shows how to create a dump file on the fly from a running
application.
It's a bit tricky, but with that book I've got enough information to add
such a feature to our application.

Now we are able to directly open a live dump file in Visual Studio from
our running application, because I've integrated a http port which
returns a live dump file. Additionally we've added a GUI which allows a
customer to write a dump file from our application on the fly.
Quite cool.


But regarding your problem, when you want to write a dump file on a
crash you have IMHO 2 other options (besides the ones already mentioned
in the other posts):

1) It's "fairly simple" to write a dump file on a crash if you
have an exception info pointer. You can call the function
MiniDumpWriteDump of dbghlp.dll to write one from a structured
exception handler you have registered with
SetUnhandledExceptionFilter.
Unfortunately since VC8.0 this handler isn't called anymore,
at least not for access violations, because the runtime registers
an exception filter with SetUnhandledExceptionFilter, which
directly calls Windows Error Reporting (WER) and aborts the
application, so your structured exception handler won't be
called before.
You can hook the SetUnhandledExceptionFilter function in VC8 / VC9,
and prevent the CRT from handling the exception, before you can.
This will prevent Windows from handling the application and therefore
might impose security risks to your application.
And I don't know if that also works on the 64 Bit edition of Vista.
To make a long story short, it's a "hack" and your decision to use
it. Nevertheless it works ;-).


2) Another option would be to use WER. AFAIK when the user is prompted
to send information to Microsoft, you can view the information,
which shall be sent. One of the files is a minidump, which should be
sufficient for crash dump analysis, is stored in a temp directory.
Your client could sent you this minidump for evaluation, simply
by copying it from the temp directory and sending it to you,
before the information is sent to Microsoft (dialog is shown) and
the file is deleted.

3) O.k. there's another option ;-).
You can register at Microsoft to get access to the database,
which stores the minidumps from your registered applications.
But this is the same one from option 2).



Hopes this helps,
Andre
Jim Freeman
2008-04-01 20:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andre Kaufmann
Unfortunately since VC8.0 this handler isn't called anymore,
at least not for access violations, because the runtime registers
an exception filter with SetUnhandledExceptionFilter, which
directly calls Windows Error Reporting (WER) and aborts the
application, so your structured exception handler won't be
called before.
Andre,

I'm using VS2005 (VC8) with SetUnhandledExceptionFilter in Win XP and
Win 2003 and am not having a problem -- I get C++ and SEH exceptions
sent to my handler. I'm curious why it isn't working for you.

Jim
Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]
2008-04-02 14:57:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jim!
Post by Jim Freeman
Post by Andre Kaufmann
Unfortunately since VC8.0 this handler isn't called anymore,
at least not for access violations, because the runtime registers
an exception filter with SetUnhandledExceptionFilter, which
directly calls Windows Error Reporting (WER) and aborts the
application, so your structured exception handler won't be
called before.
I'm using VS2005 (VC8) with SetUnhandledExceptionFilter in Win XP and
Win 2003 and am not having a problem -- I get C++ and SEH exceptions
sent to my handler. I'm curious why it isn't working for you.
If you enabled /GS (default), and a buffer overrun occurs, then an
installed unhandled exception-filter is *not* called!

It is forced to call WER. THis is done by removing any exception-filter
with a call to "SetUnhandledExceptionFilter(NULL)" with then installs
the default handler, which calls WER.
Take a look into the CRT-sources and look for "SetUnhandledExceptionFilter".

See also: "SetUnhandledExceptionFilter" and VC8
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/?postid=75
--
Greetings
Jochen

My blog about Win32 and .NET
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/
Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]
2008-04-02 15:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jochen!
Post by Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]
See also: "SetUnhandledExceptionFilter" and VC8
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/?postid=75
Now also an x64 version ;)
http://blog.kalmbach-software.de/2008/04/02/unhandled-exceptions-in-vc8-and-above-for-x86-and-x64/
--
Greetings
Jochen

My blog about Win32 and .NET
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/
Jim Freeman
2008-04-03 01:39:51 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 2, 8:40 am, "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <nospam-
Post by Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]
Hi Jochen!
Post by Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]
See also: "SetUnhandledExceptionFilter" and VC8
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/?postid=75
Now also an x64 version ;)http://blog.kalmbach-software.de/2008/04/02/unhandled-exceptions-in-v...
--
Greetings
Jochen
My blog about Win32 and .NET
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/
Hi Jochen,

Earlier this week I read your blog earlier about the /GS, abort(), and
invalid parameter issues; thanks it was very informative (https://
connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?
FeedbackID=101337 also talks about that). Andre was saying an app's
handler wouldn't get called for access violations in general.

Jim
Andre Kaufmann
2008-04-06 07:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Freeman
[...]
Andre,
I'm using VS2005 (VC8) with SetUnhandledExceptionFilter in Win XP and
Win 2003 and am not having a problem -- I get C++ and SEH exceptions
sent to my handler. I'm curious why it isn't working for you.
Hi Jim,

sorry was a bit misleading. I only remembered that my SEH wasn't called
under all circumstances, as Jochen already elaborated all security
related exceptions won't/might not call the SEH handlers anymore.

I thought under some circumstances access violations are affected too,
at least I remember some of my test programs not calling my handlers
anymore, when I forced an access violation.

However I'm not able to reproduce this anymore. So please apologize for
the confusion I may have caused.
Post by Jim Freeman
Jim
Andre

Gerard O'Brien
2008-02-25 03:14:19 UTC
Permalink
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Reuven Nisser wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:***@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl" type="cite">Hi
All,
<br>
I am looking for a crash dump program for Windows Vista.
<br>
<br>
The article "How to use the Userdump.exe tool to create a dump file"
does not apply to Vista.
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://support.microsoft.com/kb/241215">http://support.microsoft.com/kb/241215</a>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,
<br>
Reuven Nisser
<br>
</blockquote>
<font size="-1"><font face="Verdana"><br>
Perhaps the debug diagnostic tool suits your needs: <a
href="http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931370">http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931370</a><br>
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